The NHL seems to be thinking of what it will do with the franchise in Phoenix but the team seems to be on life support so why keep the team there? This would be a perfect time to expand and realign some teams in the league.
I think if the NHL does finally agree to let Phoenix move to Hamilton they should expand by two teams the perfect two choices would be Winnipeg, Canada since they do have a great fan base and support for hockey in the NHL, there stadium can hold 15,003 and there team was moved not because of lack of fan support but was sold to pad the owners wallet and the other team being Seattle, USA who have shown some love for hockey and average about 5000 fans a game in the WHL and have had games were they have passed 10,000 they are close enough to Canada and do get snow so winter hockey is a past time, the stadium in place currently holds 15,177 for hockey.
These two teams may need to build larger stadiums but they would be great hockey markets for new NHL teams.
The NHL could then realign and have 4 Divisions per conference of 4 teams, and since both Winnipeg and Seattle are in the Mid to West Coast this would mean that Detroit, Columbus or Hamilton could be moved to the Eastern Conference.
I'll go with Hamilton moving to the East.
The New Divisions could look something like this
Eastern Conference
Division 1
Toronto Maple Leafs
Montreal Canadiens
Ottawa Senators
Hamilton ????
Division 2
Boston Bruins
Buffalo Sabres
Pittsburgh Penguins
Philadelphia Flyers
Division 3
New York Rangers
New York Islanders
New Jersey Devils
Washington Capitals
Division 4
Tampa Bay Lightening
Florida Panthers
Atlanta Thrashers
Carolina Hurricanes
Western Conference
Division 1
Detroit Red Wings
Chicago Black Hawks
St Louis Blues
Columbus Blue Jackets
Division 2
Minnesota Wild
Nashville Predators
Colorado Avalanche
Dallas Stars
Division 3
Edmonton Oilers
Calgary Flames
Vancouver Canucks
Winnipeg ????
Division 4
San Jose Sharks
Los Angeles Kings
Anaheim Ducks
Seattle ????
The teams 82 game schedule would be broken down like this
Divisional: 6 games x 3 teams = 18 Games
Conference: 4 games x 12 teams = 48 Games
Opposite Conference 8 games at home versus each team of 2 divisions and 8 road games against each team of another 2 divisions.
Example of Toronto Maple Leafs Schedule
6 games each against Montreal , Ottawa, Hamilton
4 games each against Boston, Buffalo, Philly, Pittsburgh, Rangers, Islanders, Devils, Washington, Carolina, Atlanta, Florida and Tampa
1 game against each team in the Western Conference 8 at home and 8 away games.
Teams would rotate the following year if they were the road team then the home team the next year.
What do others think?
Which two teams should be expanded into league?
What should the divisions look like?
I would put the two NY teams in the division with Boston and Buffalo and allow the Penguins to play the Capitals 8 times a year.
ReplyDeleteWould love to see an NHL team here in the Pac NW.
ReplyDeleteI don't really know if the league should expand (economy and everything). I do agree the 'Yotes aught to seriously look at moving. Whether that be Hamilton or another Canada outlet. Though I feel Canada should be given another chance at a fourth team. Plus wouldn't it be great to see the Great One coach a canada team?
ReplyDeleteYour proposals interesting the only division that my eyebrows raised was having seattle with the fourth division. I think Colorado would be a better choice there. Only because I know the Avs and Sharks had a great divisional rival in the early 2000's. Also I feel it's REALLY important that every team plays every other team at least once (finally got that this year) and optimally a home-home series. Especially if the league is going to continually push certain players in the Ad market.
I kinda dig the layout. It actually makes sense.
ReplyDeleteAs a tremdous hockey fan and player in Seattle I would love to see this happen. Seattle has one of the largest adult hockey leagues in the US, so you know there would be plenty of fans. Also, the Seattle Metropolitans were the first American team to win the Stanly Cup for any trivia nerds. The only problem is that a new stadium would be needed BEFORE a team came here, there is no way an expansion franchise would move into Key Arena, seeing how the Sonics (tear)and Thunderbirds (our WHL team) just moved out.
ReplyDeleteNice article, saw you on Puck Daddy. Come check out our Leafs blog: http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com , you won't be sorry for long.
ReplyDeleteI like your alignment but would move Nashville to Division 1 in the West and Move St. Louis to Division 2.
ReplyDeleteWith regards the schedule, why do we have to do 82 games? With your plan, just cut it off at 80. I also don't like 8 games against division rivals (too many games).
I would have 6 games Divisional (6 x 3 = 18), 4 games Conference (4 x 12 = 48) and 1 game against the other conference (1 x 16 = 16). This, oddly enough, works out to 82 games.
From a Minnesota Wild Fan Standpoint I don't like Division 2 in the West. The Stars and Wild both suffer form having to play two timezones away for division games. This is a little better but the Avs remain our closest neighbor (twice as far away as Chicago)
ReplyDeleteNESN's Jack Edwards proposed a realignment for a 28-team NHL.
http://www2.nesn.com/jack-edwards/2009/03/20/nhl-needs-divisional/
The best point he makes is that Smaller divisions have made the division races rather meaningless and undrematic.
If the NHL goes to 32 (which I hope is at least half a decade away) I think a 4 divisions of 8 alignment would be preferable. Also I agree the NJ-NYI-NYR-PHI-PIT will conspire to stay together under any realignment plan.
Given the 32 cities you have presented (and acknowledge Seattle already said no to the NBA's Supersonics, while I think that would be a great market, it's not practical unless someone builds a building with private money). I would propose something aligned around time zones..
Western Conference
Pacific: ANA, CGY, COLO, EDM, LA, SA, SEA, VAN, Central: CHI, COLU, DAL, DET, MIN, NSH, STL, WPG
Eastern Conference
Atlantic: FLA, NJ, NYI, NYR, PHI, PIT, TBY, WSH
Northeast: ATL, CAR, BOS, BUF, FLA, HAM, MTL, OTW
The advantage of this alignment is that everyone is within one timezone of all of their division opponents. Which is epecially good if you base the playoffs in divisions again. Right now 8 of Detroit's 14 prospective Western Conference opponents are two or more timezones away.
For a schedule 6gms v 7 div opp. (42), plus 3gms v 8 opp in other div same conf (24), plus 1gm v 16 opp in other conf (16, 8 home against opponents in one division, 8 away at opponents in the other division) equals 82.
The good... Teams can hype half their schedule as "critical division games" yet these games are spread over 7 opponents instead of the getting the same 4 teams ad nauseum.
The downsides... WPG doesn't have any Canadian opponents in its division. Also the Southeast teams get split, but that should be mitigated by the fact being on the east coast has inherit travel advantages anyway Western cities don't enjoy.
I would propose the top 4 teams by divison advance to the playoffs, maybe have a single game 5 at 4 playoff between the end of the regular season and the start of Division semis...
I'm getting off topic. The 8 division format works better in the NFL because of their short schedule, because of the long NHL schedule I think there would be better races if the divisions were bigger.
My thoughts anyway...
NO NFL-izing of the NHL Schedule/realignment.
ReplyDeleteThe NHL should go with 4 divisions - 8 teams - play each team in the division 4 times (14 home/14 away) (28) and a home & home with the rest of the league which brings us to 76 games ... the remaining 6 games would be a home & home against the other teams in the same ranking position play at the end of the year (1a vs 1b, c & d), (2a vs 2b, c & d), etc, etc, etc
Please not eight games against divisional rivals. I actually got sick of seeing Edmonton and Vancouver here in Calgary back on the old schedule.
ReplyDeleteThanks for posting my comment. To clarify I meant UNDER THE PRESENT ALIGNMENT the Wild and Stars suffer from playing too many teams two timezones away (which is a drag on away TV ratings). Your alignment accomplishes the same thing mine does, getting everyone within one time zone of each other (exception being the West Canada Division), I just favor larger divisions and fewer games against division opponents.
ReplyDeleteAlso it would be possible to break the Eastern Conference in my proposal more geographically by splitting the PA-NY-NJ quintet (currently known as the Atlantic division). But unfortuantly it is the owners of the these teams that brought us the current alignment (seriously their travel expenses are probably non-existent compared to West teams), and i don't think they'd go for any change unless they stay together.
I do agree with you I would like to see more Canadian teams, and it's good to know there are TML fans that would be open to a team in Hamilton, though it's apparant the owners would disagree. I think Hamilton is the best choice, Winnepeg is a gray area. It sounds like at best they can rennovate the MTS Centre to 17K seats, which is just 1500 or more so than the current Coyote's average. It seems Quebec City is too small and the NHL has passed it by (same is true for Hartford, CT).
Seattle is the second largest US market not to have an NHL team (Houston), and with the absense of an NBA team, it seems like this could be the best chance in decades to solidify an NHL team in Seattle. But as has been duly noted there will have to be an arena that the taxpayers in Seattle won't pay for (I guess they stopped after the Seahawks and Mariners).
Should switch Flyers and Caps, for better rivalries within divisions.
ReplyDeleteI can't support any re-aligning with Boston and Montreal in different divisions. And frankly, the last thing the NHL needs is expansion. Put the Coyotes in Hamilton, and move another team (looking like the Islanders at present) to Quebec City, which is probably a better option than Winnipeg. I think Seattle (or Portland) would take to an NHL team, but Bettman seems determined to keep 2 franchises in Florida, 3 in California, and in Georgia, Texas, North Carolina, and Tennessee.
ReplyDeleteNE: Boston, Buffalo, Montreal, Quebec, Ottawa
ATL: New York, New Jersey, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Washington
SE: Carolina, Tampa, Florida, Nashville, St. Louis
CENT: Detroit, Hamilton, Chicago, Columbus, Toronto
NW: Vancouver, Seattle, Minnesota, Edmonton, Calgary
WEST: Los Angeles, Anaheim, San Jose, Dallas, Colorado
No Eastern Time Zone should play in the West! (unless you're one of those fools from the letsgowings website or whatever it's called) Hell, no Chicago team should be playing in the West for that matter.
ReplyDeleteThe following is a message I posted at another website about the situation:
"The NHL has too many freakin' Eastern Time Zone teams, that's the one big advantage that the NBA has over the NHL!
The Pistons and Bulls are so lucky to be in the East unlike the poor Red Wings and Blackhawks who are pretty much stuck in the West for a long, long time.
In a perfect world the NHL divisions would look like this:
Western Conference
Pacific Northwest Midwest
San Jose Seattle Winnipeg
Los Angeles Vancouver Minnesota
San Diego Calgary St. Louis
Portland Edmonton Dallas
Colorado Saskatchewan Houston
Eastern Conference
Central Northeast Atlantic
Milwaukee Toronto Charlotte
Chicago Ottawa Washington
Detroit Montreal Philadelphia
Cincinnati Quebec NY Islanders
Pittsburgh Boston NY Rangers
Of course the above will never happen but one can dream can he?"
Too add to that message, teams would play their 4 division rivals 6 times each, the 10 teams from the other 2 divisions in their conference 3 times each and the 15 teams from the other conference 2 times each for a total of 84 games. With this format you play most of your games against your division rivals while playing everyone else at least twice (I like having my Golden State Warriors beating the snot out of the New York Knicks twice a year for what they did to Don Nelson back in the 1990's thank you very much!) The NBA should adopt that format as well (The Warriors and Lakers need to play each other more often!)
Look I like hockey and think it's a better game than basketball but the NBA was smart enough to not have so many east coast teams AND have everybody play each other at least twice a year. So with that I prefer the NBA more than the NHL right now. Now the NBA needs to grow the game in Canada as I think Canada deserves another team or two.
Posted by Sharks 3:16
"No Eastern Time Zone should play in the West!"
ReplyDeleteThis comment makes me cringe, and it's usually from Red Wings fans/sports writers (though I see your a Sharks fan). The fact is there are 17 teams in the Eastern Time Zone, so pretty much no matter how you do it, there will be two Eastern time teams in the Western conference. Right now Detroit and Columbus are the two westernmost of the eastern time zone teams. They're stuck out west until more teams get out west (and I do agree, I think it's time to take a flyer on Seattle, except for the fact getting a building will be tough). And besides, I don't think the NHL is in a hurry to separate Detroit from Chicago.
Still I think the alignment I proposed above would at least pacify the Red Wings because they only have to go to central time for most of their division games and for the first two rounds of the playoffs if they go that way.
"The fact is there are 17 teams in the Eastern Time Zone, so pretty much no matter how you do it, there will be two Eastern time teams in the Western conference."
ReplyDeleteI already know that! Apperently you missed these two quotes from my article:
"In a PERFECT world the NHL divisions would look like this"
"Of course the above will never happen but one can DREAM can he?"
I already know that it would take a miracle to get some of those blasted east coast teams out west (and it especially doesn't help when big markets like Hamilton and Cleveland don't have a team).
Tell me, would you like to see the Chicago Bulls and Detroit Pistons playing in the west? Or are you glad the NBA is sane enough to have enough teams west of the Milwaukee Bucks? I of course choose the latter.
Fun Fact: Baseball is New York's main sport and Major League Baseball had three baseball teams in the New York-New Jersey region from 1903 (the year the original Baltimore Orioles moved to New York to become the Highlanders and eventually the Yankees) to 1957. After that season the Giants (my team!) and the Dodgers moved to California and since then, MLB has only managed to replace ONE of those teams with another (the Mets) but to this day, they have yet to replace the other.
This tells me that if a baseball hotbed like New York can't support three baseball teams, then how can they support three hockey teams? The NFL and NBA are also bigger in New York-New Jersey than the NHL and they only have two teams each!
My prediction: The Islanders or the Devils (Rangers are forever) will be gone from the region by the mid 2030's.
One thing I do agree with is that the NHL put too many teams in the south (and in the wrong cities too!). I get the idea, you want to grow the game in new places and it's a good philosophy but you just can't go out there and give let's say Nashville a team right there on the spot, you have to GROW the game first in those places like setting up youth hockey programs first and when the demand for an NHL team gets bigger then you can give them one.
My realignment above gets rid of most of the southern teams while giving Canada a couple of more teams and the southern cities I do have teams in are either big (Houston) or near established markets (Charlotte) and in the meantime, the NHL can try to grow the game slowly and patiently in places like Miami and Tampa and when the time is right, the NHL can return to those markets.
I suggest you reread my article above to see what you missed!
Now would I like to see my ideas above happen?
Most definantly!
Do I think it's going to happen?
Unfortunatley, No. (and for that matter yours won't happen either!)
And thus the poor Blackhawks and Red Wings are stuck in the west for a long, long time.
Now if only the Warriors could fill their entire roster with Tim Hardaway and Chris Mullin like players, then maybe we can make the Lakers our "playthings" for once instead of the other way around!
Posted by Sharks 3:16
I read your comments in the first place, all I was doing was expressing a first impression whenever I read the comment of "No eastern time zone team can play in the West." I did try to give you more credit than the average whiny Detroit sportswriter (since I observed you're a Sharks fan). And I do get that you are just in "a guy can dream" scenario.
ReplyDeleteYou and I are simply operating under different constraints. With only one possible relocation being discussed right now (two if you're thinking a couple moves ahead on the Isles), I'm trying to propose something that just includes most of the current franchises, since I don't see the NHL moving 4 franchises at once for the purpose of trying to move two franchises into the East. I think you're thinking more long term (though if the Isles don't get their arena deal, they'll be out long before 2030).
I think you made a great observation about the NY teams, and why is it the NHL is the only league with 3 teams in the market? What's been lost in this is that the NJ Devils and NY Islanders are only doing marginally better or worse attendance wise than the Coyotes.
So yes I agree it's likely the NHL will rarely make decisions that will make sense, but I think my proposal has more of a chance in the short term, especially since the owners were seriously talking about this two years ago (they managed to screw it up by trying to put Atlanta west in favor of Columbus, and still basing some playoff spots by conference).
As far as your NBA comparisions, I wish the NBA would just curl up and die. I'm sorry you have to be a Warriors fan, the NBA doesn't give a damn about any of their teams not called "The Los Angeles Lakers." It is for this reason I have no problem ignoring the T-puppies here in Minnesota.
I like your thoughts about a new divisional alignment. They make perfect sense, but in reality I don't think they will happen in the near future.
ReplyDelete"I'm trying to propose something that just includes most of the current franchises, since I don't see the NHL moving 4 franchises at once for the purpose of trying to move two franchises into the East."
ReplyDeleteIf you read carefully, the sharko guy DOESN'T THINK HIS IDEA WILL EVER HAPPEN!
"but I think my proposal has more of a chance in the short term, especially since the owners were seriously talking about this two years ago (they managed to screw it up by trying to put Atlanta west in favor of Columbus, and still basing some playoff spots by conference)."
Sorry pal, but your idea of going back to FOUR FREAKIN DIVISIONS is about as likely as the Pittsburgh Pirates chances of winning a World Series under Robert Nutting's leadership! Just because they talked about the idea of going back to 4 friggin divisions doesn't mean it's going to happen (kinda like the Big Ten/Eleven's chances of getting rid of Minnesota, Wisconsin and Iowa and then replace them with Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma and Nebraska while keeping the league at 12 teams so they don't end up like the 1996-1998 edition of the Western Athletic Conference) and I bet my money it won't.
A more likelier scenario is pointed out perfectly by the shark lover...
"Too add to that message, teams would play their 4 division rivals 6 times each, the 10 teams from the other 2 divisions in their conference 3 times each and the 15 teams from the other conference 2 times each for a total of 84 games. With this format you play most of your games against your division rivals while playing everyone else at least twice (I like having my Golden State Warriors beating the snot out of the New York Knicks twice a year for what they did to Don Nelson back in the 1990's thank you very much!) The NBA should adopt that format as well (The Warriors and Lakers need to play each other more often!)"
Sure it's a long shot, but I could see something like this happening someday (at least in the NHL).
(continue to next message)
Note: I hate blogger's stupid character limit! Now onto the rest of the message.
ReplyDeleteAs for my idea for a division realignment (that will NEVER happen), well let's see here...
Western Conference
Pacific
San Jose
Los Angeles
Anaheim
Phoenix
Colorado
Northwest
Vancouver
Calgary
Edmonton
Minnesota
St. Louis
Southeast
Nashville
Florida
Tampa Bay
Atlanta
Carolina
Eastern Conference
Central
Chicago
Detroit
Columbus
Pittsburgh
New Jersey
Northeast
Toronto
Buffalo
Ottawa
Montreal
Boston
NFC East (er, Atlantic)
Dallas
Washington
Philadelphia
The Giants (er, Rangers)
That other New York team
Screw the southeast teams not named Washington! They deserve to travel much longer distances then classic teams like Chicago and Detroit and besides, the Atlanta Falcons played in the NFC West for 35 seasons so why not the same thing for those southeast losers not named Washington?
And speaking of Washington, I just love the Cowboys rivalry with Washington and the Giants and best of all, we don't have to travel much unlike if we were in the NFC West. The Dallas Stars having rivalries with the Capitals and the Rangers would be just as awesome as the rivalries the Cowboys have right now. But of course, the NHL are runned by buffoons and thus they will never see the great Jerry Jones vision of having Dallas in an eastern division!
"As far as your NBA comparisions, I wish the NBA would just curl up and die. I'm sorry you have to be a Warriors fan, the NBA doesn't give a damn about any of their teams not called "The Los Angeles Lakers." It is for this reason I have no problem ignoring the T-puppies here in Minnesota."
Don't worry, Jerry Buss will probably go senile (like Al Davis of the Oakland Raiders) one day and then everybody can beat the crap out of them for once! But until then, I don't blame you for being very frustrated with the NBA right now. Oh and the Mavericks are having a fine season as usual and I bet my money that they will win the championship this year because everybody else is inferior to them!
Message by Furball of LeatherForever
PS Note to Buffalo residents, the Cowboys and Stars beat your teams because the Cowboys and Stars are AWESOME while the Bills and Sabres SUCK! Deal with it!